In this episode, Jenny talks to Krista and Hannah about her class piano at Eastern Michigan University, including how Music Learning Theory has changed their performances and the structure and books she uses in class.
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Introduction to Audiation-based Piano Instruction and Music Moves for Piano
Ready to learn more about audiation-based piano instruction and Music Moves for Piano? Visit Music Learning Academy for online courses, webinars, and resources.
Want to dive into audiation-based piano instruction? Check out Music Moves for Piano by Marilyn Lowe.
In this episode, Jenny talks to Krista and Hannah about her class piano at Eastern Michigan University, including how Music Learning Theory has changed their performances and the structure and books she uses in class.
Webinar Links
Movement Motivators
Make Way for Play
Support Keys to Music Learning through the Keys to Music Learning Community!
Join us on Facebook!
Introduction to Audiation-based Piano Instruction and Music Moves for Piano
Ready to learn more about audiation-based piano instruction and Music Moves for Piano? Visit Music Learning Academy for online courses, webinars, and resources.
Want to dive into audiation-based piano instruction? Check out Music Moves for Piano by Marilyn Lowe.
Welcome to Keys to Music Learning. I'm Hannah Mayo of Mayo Piano.
Krista:And I'm Krista Jadro of Music Learning Academy.
Hannah:Join us as we discuss common goals and challenges in the piano studio and offer research-based ideas and solutions to guide every one of your students to reach their full musical potential with audiation.
Krista:We are back with Jenny Fisher from Ypsilanti, Michigan. She is a fellow GIML piano faculty member, a member of the Music Learning Academy team, and we're so lucky to call her one of our friends. Welcome back, Jenny.
Jenny:Thank you. Thank you. You know, as I've listened to these community chats, I have thought of so many stories and so many things I would might have added on to, you know, something Felicity said, or something Greg said, or it's been so fun to listen to these. So I appreciate you inviting me.
Hannah:It's been so fun to do them.
Krista:So in this episode, Jenny, we're going to talk about your journey with Music Moves for Piano. And in the last episode, you talked about how you were introduced to the books, but you haven't really told us about when you started using them, with who in your piano studio, and we'd love to know more.
Jenny:Okay. Well, to be honest, when I was in grad school, I had envisioned having a studio in my home with students who started with me and stayed with me probably until they graduated from high school, like I envisioned that. We were still in an apartment at that time. And so obviously, that wasn't going to happen just yet. We were trying to figure out how that would work. And I never could have anticipated at that point, that I would be doing what I'm doing today and be where I'm at today. We anticipated having a big house in the country and having kids in that house. And you know, it was going to be Grace Notes Music Studio in my house. And it was so many things that my husband was going to be working outside of the home. And pretty much none of that panned out the way I anticipated. We have the big fixer upper in the country. We don't have kids in the house. My husband does not work outside the home. He's a very private man, and also has a lot of chronic pain and some autoimmune things going on. And so honestly, for most of our marriage, I have been the sole breadwinner.
Unknown:So in 2007, when I was finishing my studies at Eastern finally, I was asked if I could finish out the semester for someone in the functional piano class, class piano at Eastern US for music majors and minors. It was their first semester. And someone was unable to finish the semester. And I was just waiting for my comprehensive exams to be graded. And they knew that I wanted to teach rather than accompany the choir. I'd already been approached about that. And I turned it down because I was like if I do that, then I can't teach students after school because I know when the choir rehearses. I'm like, I don't want to do that. So they came back to me and said, "Can you teach this class" so I just sort of fell into that. And when that door opened teach as a part time lecturer at the University, it just seemed like the thing I needed to do. And it turns out that the person who I was substituting for decided it was time that they finished their graduate degree and they ended up never coming back to that position. So I've just been there ever since teaching the first two semesters of functional piano classes. I love that it's called functional piano. Because then I can more easily insert a lot of Music Learning Theory, concepts, and it's just an easier sell to the students I feel. So anyway, my primary teaching has been in the university classroom, and I feel like I've been a little bit more of a dabbler in all the other Music Moves. And the things that I really wanted, like I honestly am a little bit envious of those of you who have a situation, kind of like Marilyn had. She's got her home. She's got her beautiful grand piano, the students come to her, they stay with her. They spend all kinds of time with her. I've not really had that experience and I think that's okay. I think the place I'm filling is the place I'm probably supposed to be filling but I can't lie, because I kind of do wish I had what some of you have in your studios. But I have the opportunity to interact with literally hundreds of students, you know, year in and year out and kind of plant the seeds and give them experiences with audiation-based instruction. And Eastern is a very big school for Music Education. And so I have a lot of Music d students, also performance students, who are probably going to be doing some teaching and and I do my best to give them some insight and some experiences that are not based on notation. So anyway, when it comes to Music Moves, I have done lots of Keyboard Games. So while I was doing the Music Play, I had also started in 2009, started doing some Keyboard Games classes. And it's kind of crazy, because when I first started, three was a small group for Keyboard Games. And like five was an average group. And I even one time had, well, once I had a group of eight, and once I had a group of 10. And that's nuts, I don't recommend that. I had an assistant, but that was still nuts, because they were aged four to six. They were quite a wide range of developmental places. So that was, that was crazy. But at the beginning, that's I don't know, I just thought, Oh, we'll put out a class and see who signs up and well, a bunch signed up. And so we just did it. Anyway, so I've done a lot of Keyboard Games. And then I've done a little bit less of Book One. And then a little bit less of Book Two and even less of Book Three. And I I'm sorry to say that I've never even taken any students all the way through Book Three, never had a student Book Four or Five. My situation just hasn't, hasn't really given me that opportunity. The three students, I think that were into Book Three left because they wanted to pursue other music avenues like string bass, and choir. So I couldn't complain too much because they weren't just giving up on music. They just wanted to try some new things now that they were in middle school and wanted to get involved in other musical ensembles.
Hannah:Hey, Jenny, do you have any contact with these students? Or have you had contact with them after? And do you know what their musical path turned out to be?
Jenny:Yes, Well, there's one of them that I do know, I actually ran into her on campus, her and her mom last fall, because she is now singing with the University Choir as a freshman. So she has still in fact, for her graduation, she sang the Star Spangled Banner for her graduation ceremony. I've completely lost touch with one of them. Her. Both of their parents were doctors, I forget, at least one parent was a doctor and I'm not even sure they're in the state anymore. And the other is sang in choir and they have they have kept in touch with me and sent me videos of her singing with her high school choir. She's now actually in New York City as a freshman in college.
Hannah:Cool.
Jenny:So yeah, my experience, I feel like I do have a lot of experience with Keyboard Games, A and B, and Book One. And I feel like I have enough experience with Book Two. And even with Book Three, knowing how things were gonna unfold. I just haven't taken students all the way through all of that. I do have some experience with Reading and Writing Book One. I remember. It was I'm gonna say a year I hope I'm right. It was either 2010 or 2011. Marylin came to Grand Rapids, to teach us a little bit about this brand new Reading and Writing Book. And it was kind of eye opening to be honest with you. We, at the beginning, most of us were so afraid of notation. We avoided it like the plague. And because we didn't know how to do it, right. So we just didn't do it at all. So we were very interested to see what do we do with this reading/writing book, and it's just been such a learning process.
Unknown:Okay, I failed to mention that in 2009. I attended the first PDLC for piano level one, and Marilyn came to Michigan State University. She had actually been at Michigan State in 2008. During the weekend of that early childhood PDLC. Unfortunately, my friend Rachel and I had gone home for the weekend. And we missed her, we didn't know she was going to be coming. So I remember being very disappointed when I arrived back that second Monday, and there were handouts on some of the chairs from Marilyn Lowe. And I was like, what? So Marilyn was very actively getting ready to offer the first PDLC. And it was at MSU the following year. So I remember at that time, Marylin talked a lot, (the Keyboard Games book was pretty new) and she talked a lot about what she called transitions classes. And these transitions classes, I didn't really totally understand at the time, but what she really meant was transitioning students that were in early childhood, like Music Play experiences, informal guidance, transitioning them to formal learning, and that Keyboard Games was a bit of a bridge to that formal learning instruction. I want to give a shout out to Barbara Hendricks, because I think it's all due to Barbara that we had the preparatory book in the first place. And Barbara said, we need more. And so we need a lot more. And then Marilyn wrote Keyboard Games. And to be honest, I almost feel like that was her best work. I feel like it's been absolutely a game changer.
Hannah:I agree. I mean, the the whole series is amazing. But Keyboard Games, there's just something so special about it as a transition time from informal to formal learning. And I think it has a far reach that people don't even realize. I know a clarinet teacher who adapted Keyboard Games for her clarinet students. It's just such a wonderful collection. In our q&a podcast right before this. We were talking about the Keyboard Games being musical Legos, the building blocks of creativity and improvisation. So Jenny, you talk about your experiences with the books, but you teach class piano. So maybe they're... and I know that we have some class piano teacher listeners, I am a class piano teacher as Well. And maybe there's something that you could impart on the class piano teachers about how you're using these materials in a slightly different way.
Jenny:Yeah, absolutely. I discovered early on, that it was super valuable for me, as I was taking students through the Music Moves books I needed to do. And I think a lot of us have done this. And I think we kind of have to do this. I think we have to take the teachers books. And I think we have to figure out for ourselves. What's happening? How did Marylin do this? I feel like when I took the time to unravel everything that she wove together, then I understood much more clearly what was happening and why. So that process of unraveling. I was doing the Music Moves, some Keyboard Games, and some Book One and learning kind of how to guide students to use what they know. I'd never done that before. But learning how to guide students to do that. And then taking apart the teacher's manual and figuring out what was happening and why it was working. And why it was happening when it was happening. I felt like that gave me the confidence when I stepped into the piano classroom to start to, I'll say at first, dabble or experiment with, "Okay, what can I take from this Book One, or from this concept of the skill learning sequence? What can I take from this into the class piano situation?" Now, I mentioned that I just came in to the middle of the semester. So the students already had a book, and there was already a syllabus, there was already a plan, I just followed it. And I remember the woman who, who kind of oversaw all of the class piano sections, she said to me, when it became clear that I was going to be just continuing, she said, "You can do whatever you want. You can you don't have to use this book." And I thought,"Okay, Well, I don't really know what else to do right now. So I'm just going to keep using this book." So for the for the remainder of the year, I used that book. And I just kind of, you know, sort of like made mental notes about what's happening in the class and what's happening in my Music Moves lessons, and classes. And you know, like making some comparisons, and contrasts, there were plenty of those.
Unknown:And I gradually, I would say it was in 2010, that I started to slowly add things. Now, it wasn't until Marilyn had the Well-Tempered Readers out that I truly switched out of like a traditional class piano textbook, and moved all my students into the Well-Tempered Readers and the Keyalities and Tonalities. I was experimenting all along the way. The first thing that I noticed that was working was once we started doing things like Songs to Sing. And I started guiding them and what to listen for in music. And we started doing improvisation, not the kind of thing you do in your jazz combo, not the kind of thing you'd probably do on stage, but just improvising with"Okay, today, we've been doing duple meter division patterns. And we're in the key of A major, so we're going to do our A major five finger patterns or a major triads, and we're going to play around with these duple meter division patterns." And I would do it a couple different ways. Their favorite way is what I call Trading Fours or Trading Eights. I get for microbeats to demo something. (Jenny sings). That was four microbeats. And then you get a turn, right. And pretty soon we can double it, we can do eight macrobeats, go back and forth, and I can watch what they're doing a little bit. I can't necessarily hear what they're doing. But I can see that what's happening is they are developing their technique. I was so shocked, I had no idea how much it was going to help develop their technique, and how much it was going to help develop their vocabulary and the use of their vocabulary. So once I started implementing some of those things, I mean, I was just astounded. And the other thing that was just so obvious, was the performance exams. They used to sound just like all those traditional piano lessons, I did lots of stop and go stop and go stop and go. Hesitating, you know, before the accidental or I think in the last decade, I, on one hand could count the number of times I've heard anything remotely like that in a class piano situation. And that, to me, was beautiful. So the fact that I could listen for an hour to students performances, and they just flowed. There might be little things to deal with. Maybe we want to, you know, a dress some technique or something. Or I think you let your ear guide you there. And that's, that doesn't sound wrong. But did you see that? Do you see that actually So and not Re or whatever. So those were the those were the two big things that I noticed right away. It took me quite a while. And I don't think I'm done. Experimenting, I don't think those University piano classes are still all that they can be. I remember overhearing a comment from a colleague once who said that once a student gets to music school, it's kind of too late for them to learn to audiate. And I thought, "I don't think I can accept that." Mostly because of my own experience of having like the two week crash course. And it was like the world of music actually opened up to me. And I thought, if I can have them for three times a week for a year, I think I can give them something. So I couldn't accept that. And like I said, I'm still trying to learn how to do it even better.
Hannah:That has a name. It is fixed mindset. That's a fixed mindset. And the opposite of a fixed mindset is a growth mindset. If you read any of the thousands of books about growth mindset out there, right? Yeah. And I think, you told me, I think that same story at PDLC level one years ago, and I took that with me. Because I have felt that way before like with these college music majors and non-majors. It's like, is it too late for them? And the answer is no. It's not too late to have a meaningful music making experience and learn how to listen to music with more understanding. Even if it's simple things, like listening for duple meter or triple meter, it's like if that's the one thing I impart on you before. I mean, it's not. I'm going to impart so many things on you. But like, if you leave my class...if you come to my class, not being able to distinguish duple and triple, but when you are listening to the music that you like, and you leave my class able to do that, I feel like that's a pretty big accomplishment.
Jenny:Agreed. Agreed. And that is actually exactly one of the things that's in my head. I recently have been asked to start teaching some of the music theory fundamentals courses, which is, you know, supposed to be the nuts and bolts. And it's a not for music majors or minors. It's one of these general education courses. And I think, and I tell them right up front, I said, guys, this is what we're supposed to be teaching in this class. This is what you're supposed to be learning in this class. And so yeah, we're going to do some of this, we're going to look at some of this nitty gritty stuff. But let's be honest, this isn't the stuff that's music. This probably isn't the stuff that drew you to taking this class. And I'm going to do my best to make sure that as we're looking at the nitty gritty stuff, it's not just disconnected from the actual music, I want you to be hearing the music. Yes, we'll be looking at it in context. And, and that is one of their first assignments, which has nothing to do with notation. But yes, the one of their first assignments is they have to, they have to find something in duple meter and triple meter. And I mean, I get them up standing and doing macrobeats and microbeats. In some classes, the dynamic is like really fun. And they're like, oh, yeah, this is awesome. Like, oh, my gosh, we did a resting tone activity that was so cool. I've never done anything like that before. And other classes look around at each other like, Oh, this is the weirdest thing I've ever done. I'm so uncomfortable. And I just laugh. And I'm like, I know, we're just gonna do a little bit more anyway.
Krista:So are your class piano classes, Aae they music majors? Or are they non music majors? Have any of them had piano experience before?
Jenny:Very good question. So at Eastern, my piano classes are music majors and minors, and some of them have had some piano experience in the past, usually, it's not enough that they would be able to do the proficiency exam. If they can play well enough, they don't have to take the first class, or maybe the second class, or maybe all four of the classes if they've had, you know, quite a bit of piano in their past. But if they, you know, play the cello, or they sing, but they don't have any keyboard skills, or they just have a little bit, or they only read one clef or something like that, they come to my class. I also encourage them, if they come for a piano placement exam, and maybe their playing is decent, maybe their sight reading is decent. But if they don't feel very confident about going into their actual music theory class and their aural skills class, I have a pretty serious talk with them about the piano class might be easy for you. But I think it would be a great place for you to be and I just kind of leave it up to them. A quite a few students will decide you know what, I've heard good things about you. I think I'll just take the class, I'll get the easy A.
Krista:Take the class. Everybody take the class.
Jenny:They often do, they often do. But what happens in there is students are building a listening vocabulary. They're learning to sing and chant, they are putting the music in their own bodies, and then putting it on an instrument. And I think it only supports what's happening in their music theory classroom. And I actually, years ago, had one semester where I did teach the music theory class. This was way at the beginning when I was just starting to dabble with adding MLT into the piano class. And I'm really grateful. I kind of resisted doing it. But I'm grateful that I did now because now I know what the students are expected to be learning and doing in their first semester of piano or of theory class. So I can I can kind of help support that in the piano class. "Oh, you guys. I think you guys are talking about cadences now. Do you see the half cadence? Do you hear the half cadence? Do you see that?" You know, Oh, what are the three great, you know, I can bring some of those things in to to the functional piano class. Now to answer the other part of your question. So for about a decade, 11 years I also taught at Concordia University in Ann Arbor right down the road. And that was a combination, those piano classes were called beginning Piano I and II. And they mixed music majors and minors and soccer players, football players, whatever, all into the same class. And I found that extremely difficult. I never felt like I did what everybody needed. That was hard.
Hannah:That is hard. That's very hard. I find myself in that situation. I don't have mix of music majors and non majors. But I do just within the context of the non-major class, there's a huge continuum of skill level, people that play instruments, people that have never played an instrument. I've had students that took my class specifically because they took piano for their whole lives, and they just wanted to come do something easy and fun. It runs the whole gamut. And the thing that has really helped me deal with that is something I picked up from Music Learning Theory with the easy, medium and difficult. That's referring to patterns. But I've like adopted that into activities. And once again, Keyboard Games is so great, because you can tell them, if you want an easy thing, do this. If you want a moderate thing, do this, if you want the hard thing do this. And I just let them pick what they want. And it has really helped. But I can imagine that would give me some struggle to have a mix of music majors and non-majors.
Jenny:Yeah, I'll be honest, I don't miss that.
Krista:I wonder also what the students reactions are to I guess, 1) improvising, because even if they're not a piano person, if they're majoring on the cello, or different instruments, they may never have improvised before, and 2) whether they saw an impact on the performance of their instrument. I mean, they likely are audiating in a different way, by the time you are done. If this is a year, three times a week. That's amazing.
Jenny:It is. it is. So I have, over the years collected a few statements, like just things I overhear from students. And I remember one time, this was actually a string bass player, we were in class, and we were playing something. I don't even remember what it was now. But as we were studying the left hand part had Do-So and Ti-So, and it was kind of alternating between Do-So and Ti-So and this student all of a sudden burst out and was like, "Oh, we so just played this pattern in orchestra." And it was like, there's this like, you can see this major aha moment. Like, oh, Okay, there's this thing. Yeah. Okay, that's Do-So and that's Ti-So and suddenly, like, she realized, Oh, I've heard that before. Oh, I was actually just doing that. And I didn't know it. You know, I, I've been there where you have that aha moment. So I know it does apply. Maybe I should make a point of asking that, hey, if you ever notice anything in your lessons, or in your practice time, and you feel like, Oh, that reminds me of something from piano or something I learned? I haven't done that. But it would be interesting to know. I did see in January, a student that I had years ago at a music conference. And she said, "You know what? I still use Keyalities and Tonalities." And I was like "you do? Tell me about that." She's like, it's so great. And said, I never felt like I was very good at piano. And I don't remember thinking that she wasn't good. I thought she was fine. But she still uses Keyalities and Tonalities as her workbook.
Krista:That's amazing. And so you have these students using the Keyalities and Tonalities books and you said the Well-Tempered Readers as well.
Jenny:Yes, yes. And I should say this too, so they have those books. But the first six weeks of class, we don't use any books at all. For six weeks. Everything is just ears, singing, chanting and hands on the keys and learning to improvise and learning to listen and I make a big deal about that; that language learning model. And you know, and being well rounded musicians and many of us are not well rounded. And so in case you're not Well rounded in the listening vocabulary, and since listening is the foundation, this is where we're starting. It's been fantastic. I mean, I've had students say to me, "oh my gosh, I learned more aural skills in this class than I learned in aural skills class." One person said, "Oh, whenever I'm in aural skills, and I have to dictate a rhythm. If I hear the Du-da-dis in my head, it works. But I just can't do it with numbers. But if I hear the Du-da-dis, I can do it."
Krista:That's huge.
Jenny:It is I think it is huge.
Hannah:Well, Jenny, this has been really enlightening, mainly because we do share the common bond of class piano teacher. And I'm sure that a lot of others got a lot out of that. I'm even getting a few ideas now that I might think about. And I just want to tell everyone that Jenny has a webinar on the Music Learning Academy website, and it is called Movement Motivators: A Primer on the Purpose of Movement in Piano Instruction. And we did talk a lot about movement in the last episode and a little bit about engaging older people in movement. And I've seen this webinar. It's got a lot of really great movement ideas. And so if you are new to movement, that's an excellent webinar to watch. And of course, if you haven't yet joined our Facebook community, please you are welcome. It is called Introduction to Audiation-based Piano Instruction and Music Moves for Piano. Join us there with your questions and your struggles and your successes in using audiation-based teaching in your studio or classroom. Thanks so much, everyone. We'll see you soon.