Between Lessons: Early Childhood Music

In this first “Between Lessons” quick chat, Krista and Hannah dive into the world of early childhood music education, sharing fresh experiments, big questions, and joyful discoveries from their classrooms.

Krista returns to teaching early childhood at a Montessori school and reflects on the power of immersion, play, and patience. Hannah shares how a summer seminar reshaped her thinking about music literacy, leading her to experiment with looping, overlapping class structures, and emergent music reading.

If you teach young children, or want to better understand where audiation begins, this episode is full of practical ideas and encouragement.

Show Notes
Unveiling Artistry in Early Childhood by Mary Ellen Pinzino
Sarah Boyd, pianovinestudio.com
Joy Morin, colorinmypiano.com

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Introduction to Audiation-based Piano Instruction and Music Moves for Piano

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Want to dive into audiation-based piano instruction? Check out Music Moves for Piano by Marilyn Lowe.

Transcript

Krista: 0:12

Welcome to Keys to Music Learning. I'm Krista Jadro Of Music Learning Academy.

Hannah: 0:16

And I'm Hannah Mayo of Mayo Piano.

Krista: 0:19

Join us as we discuss common goals and challenges in the Piano Studio and offer research-based ideas and solutions to guide every one of your students to reach their full musical potential with audiation.

Hannah: 0:33

We are trying something new, and we're a little nervous about it, right?

Krista: 0:39

Yes, we are!

Hannah: 0:41

Krista and I have been doing the Keys to Music Learning podcast

Krista: 0:45

for, oh my gosh, it might be four or five years now.

Hannah: 0:49

Four or five years now, we've got about what was it? 75 episodes.

Krista: 0:53

Just reached 75 episodes.

Hannah: 0:55

We got to talking, and we decided that we want to just throw out this new idea, so we're gonna start recording some short chats between the two of us. We would love to have guests if you've got something to contribute for some of our topics that we're going to talk about, but we are calling these short little episodes between lessons.

Krista Jadro: 1:22

And they're going to be quick chats. We're not going to go on and on like we normally do.

Hannah: 1:27

Maybe 10-15 minutes tops, if we really get excited, but we we want to be able to just contribute a little bit more regularly for our listeners. And so we thought this would be a great way to do it. And today's first topic, drum roll please, is early childhood, early childhood music, which is really a close, close topic to my heart and to Krista's heart. So Krista, I want to ask you, first, to tell everyone about your new early childhood teaching.

Krista Jadro: 2:03

Yes, okay, so I'm so excited. As many of you know, I taught early childhood in many different areas. Most recently was Brookline Music School, where I taught early childhood classes. And when my son was born, Niko, who is eight years old, which is crazy, I stopped teaching early childhood classes, and I focused on Music Moves for Piano classes. I'm so happy to now be returning to early childhood one morning a week, which is enough for me right now to be on the floor because my knees are already hurting. One morning a week at a local Montessori School where I have two preschool classes, which I say preschool, but it's actually 2.9 to six years old. So there are some kindergarten students in those classes mixed ages. So two preschool classes and then one toddler class, which is about 18 months to that 2.9 age, and then one baby's class, where my youngest now is, she must be three or four months old, and the oldest one is about a year and a half. So it's absolutely perfect for me. I drive there, I teach two straight hours, and then I'm home by lunchtime. Montessori, I feel like really understands what we're trying to do with music learning theory and just really teaching to the child and understanding child development and music development. And when I went to interview with them, they just loved it. They loved what I said I would be doing. And from the very first lesson, well, I say lesson, but class with the students, the teachers and the teachers assistants were just really happy with how they went and how the students reacted. And it's just been amazing going each week.

Hannah: 4:05

That does sound amazing. I'm so glad you're back in an early childhood setting.

Krista: 4:09

Me too. Me too, yeah. And it's been really wonderful, you know, seeing where it all starts, we know, with those with those babies, and hearing the musical responses, and I've only been with them since October, so really that's not even that long, October, November, December, January. This is my fifth month with them, and I'm already hearing so many musical responses. There are some babies that, you know, moved up to the toddler class, and then some toddlers that moved up to the preschool class, and it's just been amazing seeing those students growth when they have the older students to be models for them. It's just been really eye opening again, and I feel so lucky to have that morning in my week now.

Hannah: 4:57

Yeah, and a lot can happen in five months. A lot of growth and development. Yeah, if you are giving children a really rich musical environment, a lot can happen in five months, absolutely.

Krista: 5:11

And I only see the babies for 20 minutes weekly. But like you said, so much can happen even in a short amount of time when it's really that 20 minutes is focused on all music. It's just no talking. We're just musicing together.

Hannah: 5:30

So your classes are 20 minutes, you said.

Krista: 5:33

So the baby's class is 20 minutes, the toddler's class is 25 minutes, and each preschool class is 35 minutes, and that's what they've done in the past. So they pretty much told me, like, this is what we do. Let's try this, see if it works. And so far, it's been working out.

Hannah: 5:50

Well, nice. Yeah. Well, that makes me think of what I'm experimenting with at my preschool now.

Krista: 5:58

Yes, and tell us a little bit about too, because you've been at that preschool for a while now.

Hannah: 6:03

For probably over a decade now. I teach at an early childhood learning center called the Reach Institute here in Lafayette, and it is a really amazing place there. The youngest is like an older two and there are some two year olds, and then it goes up to kindergarten. So it sounds like really similar to the program that where you're teaching.

Krista: 6:31

And are they separated by age? Are they together?

Hannah: 6:34

Yes, they are separated into three age groups. So basically old twos and threes and then fours and early fives, and then the kindergarten five and early six by the time they finish. So most of them are six years old and ready to go to first grade. So I kind of had my pedagogical world turned upside down over the summer, and maybe that's another conversation for one of these quick chats in the future be a longer, longer than a quick chat, maybe even an interview, hopefully one day. But over the summer, I took a music literacy seminar from Marilyn Pinzino, who wrote two books, which I've read both of now, but I want to highlight the one called Unveiling Artistry in Early Childhood, because I highly recommend this book if you are a teacher of early childhood music, or really a music teacher of any kind, because the process for learning is the same for all people. It just looks a little different based on age, and just the way you present it. But this got me questioning all kinds of things, and making me want to experiment with some of the suggestions that are in that book. So I have been doing that over the last semester. So we took the seminar in the summer, and then I started experimenting in August when we went back to school. And I've been kind of all over the place, and I felt very uncomfortable, and I've just been like doing whatever my heart comes up with in the moment, and trying to keep some track about, you know what tonalities and meters we did today, so that I know what tonalities and meters we might do in the next week, little things like that. But mostly it's just been like a free for all and over the break for over the holiday break, I decided maybe it's about time to really get like a lesson plan going. And I wasn't satisfied with the amount of time that I had with each class, which was 20 minutes for each class and I would go to their classroom, which was also new. The kids used to come to me in this big open space, but I went to them for about 20 minutes. But then, you know, with travel time, it didn't quite turn out to be a total of 20, and I wasn't satisfied with that, so I proposed a new lesson format for music class. And what happens now is I go into what we call the assembly room, the great room, and the youngest kids come in, first for 15 minutes, and then the middle class comes in and joins them for 15 minutes, and then the oldest come in. So it's like this constant overlapping. The oldest class comes in for another 15 minutes, and we have so that everybody ends up having 45 minutes total class time. And what I do in the 15 minute intervals depends on what class I'm teaching. So with the little ones, it's a lot of immersion. With the middle and older ones, I give them more opportunities for like rhythm dialogue, like back and forth chanting or singing. A tonal dialogue, and the class where we're all together is kind of like what I would call the low hanging fruit of music education, like the more entertaining aspects of being an early childhood music teacher. So we might do like a song tale. We've been focusing on the Hole in the Bucket for the last few weeks, and listening to different versions of the Hole in the Bucket, like a new one each week, and they can all sing all the words now. It's very cute. And then in the times where it's smaller groups, like one class or two classes, we focus more on, like, really getting into a tonality, or, like, really getting into a meter, and, like, getting that, that musical muscle working. And then with the older kids, they have the last spot by themselves. And don't come for me Music Learning Theory police, but we've been reading notation, and I've been just experimenting with reading, like, really, beginner level rhythm chants. With them, we've made it to duple divisions, but we're going very, very slowly, and we're playing lots of review games, and they are seeing in rhythmic notation. And I know, like, I don't even know if I'm totally on board with that, yet. It's just an experiment right now, but they are understanding that Du de Du can look different ways, and some of them do not understand that do why Du de Du looks different ways? And some of them kind of seem okay with it. So we're just going and I'm also reading to them, so like following the language learning model. We read to children knowing that they don't understand how to read yet, but they might try to imitate us and do reading behaviors is what Mary Ellen would call it, reading behaviors, writing behaviors, and I have been reading to them things that I know they absolutely cannot read, but at least they're learning, like music notation goes left to right, and we follow this line, and then we follow this line, and they're they're getting a chance to just sort of visually absorb some of that. So that's been a big experiment. I might totally abandon it later, but so far so good.

Krista Jadro: 12:22

I love it. And there are other teachers that have talked about, you know, emergent music literacy. And there's been some research. I wish I had the research study, but the professor that I used to work with, Suzanne Burton, she was really looking into emergent music literacy. And I remember, this was back when I was in grad school, but I was teaching some Montessori classes then, and I had some kindergarten classes. And I remember Dr Burton saying, Well, you know, kindergarten students, they're, you know, they pretend to write letters to their parents or to their friends. And you know, even though it may look like a scribble to you, it's them experimenting with writing and with reading. And so I remember taking that and doing that in my classes there, and we would write patterns and just kind of have fun in a very informal way with music notation. I know Mary Ellen talks about it, and Sarah's done a whole bunch. Sarah Boyd has been done a whole bunch with, with music literacy. So you have to keep us posted on how it goes. And I love that. You say it's an experiment, and that's okay, yes, right? We want to put that out there. That, yes, when you're learning something, I like a recipe. When I'm learning a recipe or cooking something for the first time, I do like to do it the way that it is written. But then afterwards, you experiment what know, what happens when I add more of this or take out some of this? And you kind of learn and yeah, and if something doesn't work, try something else, try something else. Or maybe you don't do that again, right? And that's okay.

Hannah: 14:10

And our friend Joy Morin even told me one time that sometimes she'll try things pretty sure that they're not going to work, but she tries them just to make sure that they they're not going to work, and that she can set them aside.

Krista Jadro: 14:23

I love it. You just got to make sure. Right? Make sure. So I've been, I've been looking at the clock Hannah, and we're at like, 13 to 14 minutes already, which is kind of crazy. But before we go, what are so I'm just curious, like, what are some things that you're noticing? Like, what is working really well? What are you like I'm not sure if this is working great.

Hannah: 14:48

Well. I'll tell you something that's really working is the I'm calling it looping. Okay, so if you think about like in music, when you loop something, it just goes and goes and goes and goes and goes. So I will take a song or a chant, and I will just put that thing on loop. And what is very interesting is that you think you're not really, maybe you're not really reaching the kids, but then on that fifth loop, all of a sudden, three kids just wake up and join you, and it's like the lights came on and then, and then you're like, Oh, I can't stop now. I got to keep the loop going. And then by the eighth time, you know, these kids have the lights came on for them and and now they're going. So that is something that I've been really enjoying, is the concept of looping, and not just doing a song or a chant three or four or five times, I'm talking like, eight to 10 times, yeah, yeah. And what I've also noticed is, because we're doing that, the kids as young as four years old, whenever it's time to improvise their own chants, they are creating much longer phrases. They're not just giving me four macrobeat patterns. They're giving me these like long, long chants. And sometimes they'll, they'll do a thing, and then they'll repeat it a couple of times. But that is just showing me that, like they're, they're really getting a sense of the whole of, like, what it is to chant in duple meter, or, like, what it is to sing in Phrygian tonality, yeah. So I'm really excited about that. So if you haven't tried looping, if you're only singing a song or chanting a chant a few times, give looping a try. Do it eight times.

Krista Jadro: 16:27

So interesting. I've never heard it called looping, but I did learn because I I've said before I came from the early childhood background, that's what I started with. And I don't remember who taught me or where I heard it, but they basically said sing the song or chant the chant, until, like you lose, until, yeah, like you just keep. How long can you make that one chant go for? So sometimes in my toddler classes, I'll look at my lesson plans, and for 25 minutes I've only done two songs. That's it, because they were having so much fun. Oh, by the way, if you teach early childhood music, the little ones love putting a bean bag on their head and dropping it and singing, uh oh, my voice is kind of gone, but that was a five and one. Oh, and they will do that for weeks on end. Actually, I shouldn't even say weeks. I should say months. I think I've been doing it for months, and they come as soon as they sing, see the bean bag, oh, they'll sing, uh oh, which is adorable, yeah.

Hannah: 17:37

And that you're, you're already giving us advice, and I didn't even ask you what your advice was, because the advice is to keep it playful. Oh, yeah, you should. You should just be in a constant state of play. But other than that, Krista, do you have anything else you're really excited about, and can share some tips or advice?

Krista Jadro: 17:55

I don't know if this is tips or advice. It's just something that makes my heart happy, and I guess maybe it's advice. If you're teaching the young, young ones, you can never, I don't want to say, discount a student, but you don't know what's going on in their little musical brains. I had one little girl who probably cried the first five times I was there, and then the next couple times she was just quiet. She's young, maybe, maybe two years old. She just sat on a chair away from the circle and just watched. And then it was actually the bean bag that she first held out her hand that she wanted the bean bag, and she put it right on her head. And this was a couple months before she did anything. And now, you know, four or five months in, she sits in the circle, she sings all the song well, sings the songs in her own way with the ba's and she does the uh oh's every single time. And she just ran up this last class and gave me the biggest hug after the class. So really, you just never know what a student needs. Some students really need to just sit back and watch, and that's okay. So just, it's nice to be reminded of that that and also that you can really music is powerful.

Hannah: 19:23

That's really great advice. Yeah, don't, don't just assume that a kid is standoffish, is not absorbing and is not having some really fantastic things going on inside their musical mind. I had this kid last year who would just give me these really mean ugly faces, like whenever I would start singing, if I would look at him, he would look away. And this year, he is like eyes locked in on me all the time, singing all the time with me, in tune, beautiful singing, voice, chanting with me. And you can just tell he's just eating it up. So. So great advice.

Krista: 20:01

Yeah, all right. Well, thank you for joining us for our first between the lessons, quick chat. We hope to do lots more of these.

Hannah: 20:13

Thanks so much. We'll see you soon. You.